What’s wrong with this picture?
A church within the United Church of Canada has an avowed atheist for its minister, and the denomination has made an undisclosed deal with her lawyer to let her remain as pastor and still go on professing atheism (https://www.wnd.com/2018/11/surprise-christian-church-lets-atheist-keep-pastoring/). I’d love to know what’s in that deal.
Wallowing in liberalism up to its eyeballs, the United Church of Canada boasts “a diversity of theological beliefs” and a bunch of openly practicing homosexuals in its highest ranks of clergy. So really, all we have here is the oxymoron, “liberal Christianity,” carried to its next logical–one might say inevitable–step.
This is the second largest denomination in Canada, but like liberal churches everywhere, it’s losing members all over the place–posting an 8% decrease in the period 1991-2001.
The question is, what kind of nincompoops stay in a church where the pastor is an atheist, and proudly says so? Do they honestly call their whatever-it-is a Christian church?
Hey! Let’s ask St. John the Apostle what he would think of an ordained minister who denies that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And John says–
“Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is anti-christ, that denieth the Father and the Son” (1 John 2:22). Case closed.
Case closed on earth, indeed. The final case, before the Great White Throne will make it final.
I think you will find there are many people who uphold some of the principles of Christianity who are not Christians in the accepted sense.
Remember Christian is a label applied to many different types : those who perform good acts , those who attend a church on Sunday , those who believe the Bible literally word for word. This last group can be spilt into a large number because of the numerous interpretations .
An atheist is not a Christian, period.
We would call those cultural Christians, but there are fundamentals that all bible believing Christians agree on, regardless of denomination. Otherwise, every heresy and apostasy could be labeled Christian.
Secularists live on the moral capital amassed by Christianity.
That’s a very astute observation. I suspect that many secularists base their expectations for a better world Judeo-Christian ethic, without even realizing it.
Secularists have extended the the moral standpoint of Christianity , broadening the rather narrow outlook of the early Christians , humanizing Christianity .
When the Catholic church lost control we had the reformation and for the first time many people were able to read the Bible in their own language. Before that time the priests alone read the Bible in Latin so we had one interpretation ; that of the mother church through her priests.
This great fragmentation led to many dissenting groups and later these in turn broke up quarreling over the interpretation of scriptures.
Some put this down to human inability to interpret scripture , but the more sensible view is that scripture itself is inconsistent.
No, Scripture is not inconsistent, humans are. How can an imperfect human perfectly understand a perfect Creator? It can’t be done, so we do the best we can as sinners saved by grace. We are to conform to Scripture, not Scripture conforming to us.
How can we conform to scripture that we all interpret in different ways?
But people interpret *everything* in different ways. Have you seen how liberal judges “interpret” the Constitution?
Original Sin taints everything.
I would not say everything but most things are open to interpretation as a result we cannot be sure of the correct interpretation .
How do you know your Christianity is the right one among all the others?
The Bible’s Christianity is the right one.
I never did see any profit in the claim that things are not what they are, but only what we think they are. Postmodernism is both idle and barren.
You have neatly dodged the question I asked you by bringing in the Bible which as we know has many interpretations . I’m asking you a personal question and a reasonable one that an enquirer may ask of anyone who professes to be a Christian. I know from experience that I will get different answers from different Christians who all claim their particular answer is the Biblical one.
This does not not surprise me since we all have different interpretations of most things.
There is a Church of Satan in many places, along with his mosques, and liberal democrats, that are the “liars” that deny that Jesus is the Christ. Satan is a master of deceit and will win almost all battles, until he loses the war at the end of the age. In the meantime, ‘come into my web said the spider to the fly.’ True Christians need to be like Jesus on the mountain to overcome this temptation.
These churches will become the non-denominational covers for wiccans, satanists, cultists, and all manner of non-believers by buying up existing churches, getting government tax breaks under the 503(c) program, and lying their way into neighborhood congregations through the perversion of christianity itself. God (or was it Paul?) chastised the early churches for the disunity they created by espousing different doctrines. He said they should all be following the same doctrine, as one Church body. Ironically, should this church become non-denominational, they will in fact follow the same doctrine, albeit atheism, which doctrine will be anything but biblical of course.
Easy enough to say that Satan is a master of deceit. Just as easy to say it of a minister.
Let me give you an example of a split between those who believe Jesus is the Christ or the Messiah. Some believers are convinced that all mankind will be saved and receive eternal life , while others maintain only a small number will see salvation. The first belief is called universalism and the Catholic church invented purgatory to make this possible.
The third choice is most will be saved – this age is not over yet.
I think you are onto something, WR. In Ezekiel, it repeatedly states that the Nations will know that I am the LORD, or words to that effect. When the Gog of Magog attack happens and God vindicates His name, the nations, all of them, will know that the True God exists and will fulfill His promises.
It is my belief that then, and only then, will the Good News finally have it’s full reach and people will chose their side based, not upon the word of some human opinion of Christianity, but instead upon having seen the True God revealed. Many . . . many will be saved, while some will choose rebellion and to side with Satan. The judgment comes thereafter.
I don’t claim to know all the details, but I am certain that God wants the shed blood of the Christ to benefit as many people as possible. When humans see the True God revealed at Gog of Magog, denominational arguments will seem trivial and, instead, we will have a uniting force like no other.
In order for God’s Kingdom to bless mankind, we will have to be united and looking to Christ, God’s anointed king, as our standard. This is not humanly possible, but certainly possible for our God.