What’s with the new pope? Today (in The Drudge Report) he’s saying you don’t have to believe in God to go to heaven. All you gotta do to gain salvation, says Pope Francis, is obey your conscience. So I guess sincere Nazis, who honestly believed they were doing the right thing by running death camps, are now sitting at the Lord’s table with the saints.
Salvation by the individual conscience–where did he get that idea? Depending on who you are and what you are inclined to do, your conscience will let you get away with worshiping false gods or no god at all, idolatry, blasphemy, abusing the sabbath, abusing your parents, committing murder, adultery, or theft, bearing false witness against your neighbor, or coveting your neighbor’s goods. I mean, look at what people do! Their consciences can’t be giving them that much grief over it, can they?
Not one of the Ten Commandments is safe from the human conscience.
Your conscience is part of you. When you get saved by faith in Jesus Christ, your conscience gets saved, too. Only then can it become a reliable guide.
This is Christianity 101.
God only knows what Pope Francis is trying to do by teaching otherwise.
Did Pope Francis Tell Atheists They Don’t Have to Believe in God to Go to Heaven?
http://crossmap.christianpost.com/news/did-pope-francis-tell-atheists-they-dont-have-to-believe-in-god-to-go-to-heaven-5140
Interesting–thanks for the link. But whatever else this shows, I think it does show that the Pope ought to be a lot more careful about what he says and how he says it.
I think Pope Francis means this:
Romans 2:14-16
New International Version (NIV)
14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
I don’t think Paul was intending here to echo the atheists’ current “good without God” campaign. The atheists with whom I have discussed these things, when I ask them “If there is no God, and therefor no transcendent, absolute, immutable standard of law and morality, then how are we to know what’s right or wrong?”, their answer always is, “Oh, we can arrive at that by consensus.” But consensus, as R. J. Rushdoony used to say about democracy, boils down to two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.
Paul observes that non-Jews in the Roman Empire–gentiles not instructed in the Law–sometimes did what was right without getting it from the Torah. But if that were universally the case, what need would we have of the scriptures?
I’ll stand by my claim that the conscience lets you get away with murder and every other sin.
We disagree, but I thank you for your thoughtful and reasonable reply.
This guy is a piece of work, that’s for certain.
This pope has said some of the most outrageous things I’ve ever heard from someone who claims the title Vicarius Filii Dei, meaning representative or sitting in the place of Christ. Where I come from that translates to an antichrist, which would then explain his outrageous statements, such as Christ being a failure on the cross, God made people gay, the Our Father should be changed (apparently Jesus didn’t do it justice), we’re all referring to the same God/Allah/Buddha/whatever – and many, many more blasphemous comments issued from his scandalous mouth. I’m sorry if that sounds harsh. The man, in my opinion, is evil.
One simple question which comes to mind is; does he use the Bible as his guide? If not, what is the source of his guidance and should we ne paying attention to his direction?
It goes down to the lowest levels of every denomination. The pastor of my old church told me “adultery is no big deal” and what we have most to worry about is “Bibliolatry,” the sin of taking the Bible seriously.
Hence my removal from organized religion. I saw the same sorts of things happening all the time in my own experiences.
I second that!
In most cases, ‘religions’ are self-serving, which then puts Christ in at least second place.
Linda, will you please get your translations straight before you start constructing your straw man arguments. A vicar is a representative, not a replacement. Furthermore, a “religion” is a system of belief, coming from the word that means “to bind,” i.e., a set of ideas about reality, which “binds” one to all that proceeds from that system of ideas. No system of ideas in itself puts Christ in second place — unless you’re willing to grant that your own beliefs, which constitute a religion, also put Him in second place. As for “organized religion,” it would be strange if people who held the same beliefs didn’t become organized. The opposite of organization is chaos — or the kind of self-produced god that you purport to reject.
Paul planted churches, and we can see in his epistles that he had a great deal of trouble with them–which John echoes in the second and third chapters of Revelation. His language gets a little strong: “Oh, foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you?”
More than a few churches, in all denominations, have been bewitched, these days. That doesn’t mean we as Christians shouldn’t organize. It does mean that sometimes we really have to re-organize.
Well, professor, if you re-read my comment, you will plainly see that I did say ‘representative’.
So a representative now is by definition an antichrist? Since you purport to represent the correct interpretation of Christ words, that would make you an antichrist by your definition, would it not?
Enough. This is getting toxic. Arrivederci, y’all.
Pardon me; I should have said “addio” rather than “arrivederci,” since the latter promises a return. Addio.
Well, I’m starting to feel like the referee in a pro wrestling match. You know–the guy no one ever listens to.
I think I ought to be able to post articles on this pope’s strange remarks without two valued members of this community getting into a food fight with each other. Uh, gals, the enemy fleet’s out there in the harbor, getting ready to shell us again: do we need to be shelling each other? I mean, really, there are enough Babylonians out there for all of us up here on the walls. Could we please concentrate on defending the city?
Ephesians 5 tells us Christ died for the Church that He might sanctify her, and in chapter 4 how He gave gifts to the Church – sounds like an organization to me. People who claim to be Christian but don’t go to a church on Sundays makes me think something is amiss.
Please, Linda–when this pope deviates from Catholic teachings, it doesn’t mean the teachings are in error. It means that he’s in error.
I would be much obliged if no one started any fights over this.
You’ve read my articles, in the Archives, about “Paganism in the Church,” so you know where I’m coming from. Look at some of the things Methodists, Presbyterians, and Lutherans have gotten up to in recent years. I’ve interviewed people in those churches who are at their wits’ end.
Let me see if I can find the article about the seminary president who performed a lesbian “marriage” for his daughter.
Lee, I have not been able to find “Paganism in the Church,” at Chalcedon.edu. Can you post a link?
There is no single link to all the articles in the series. You would have to search using my name and, I guess, the name of the church you want to read about. It’d be great if they displayed all the articles together, but they don’t.
For instance, a search of “lee duigon, reformed church in america,” should give you links to two or three different articles.
Thanks Lee. That got me started.